Rename the Help and How To forum category

@martin @gabby

We DESPERATELY need some sort of way to indicate that the Help and How To category in this forum is for help with using Bootstrap Studio, not for generalized help with website development, or writing javascript, or recreating neat website features people see on other websites, etc. It should be named something like…

Help with using Bootstrap Studio

Then, if the developers are so inclined, they can make a separate forum section for generalized help with coding questions, or website development, etc… As it is now, the Help and How To category is rapidly getting filled up with questions that have less to do with using this program, and more to do with people seeking general help with website development, which not many of us are qualified (or even care) to answer!

Besides, there are much better places (like Stack Overflow) to get help with generalized website development questions.


=1 I fully agree and would also add that if a forum were created for help with general website questions and help, that it also state that it is user based and in some way let them know that they may need to look elsewhere if a question is unanswered. That way they won’t expect that someone “has” to answer them.

I for one have decided to just ignore them, and I really wish everyone else would as well, or at least tell them to go elsewhere. Many helpers aren’t consistent with it where they will answer some, and not answer others, and tell others not to look for help here then go help someone else. It’s kind of maddening lol. Either we’re going to help or we aren’t, but we should stop being wishy washy with it and stick to our guns either way.

Anyways, I like the idea for both the rename and the new forum.

Splitting is better than renaming since it doesn’t completely close the door, but then it would also depend on the community’s willingness to help. Still, with a common platform we can tackle similar issues more swiftly and accurately.

So for instance, someone goes to Stack Overflow to add a calendar to their website and found a solution that requires custom codes and all that stuff but there is a similar solution feasible via this forum which is more tailor-made for BSS. (Yes I was looking at one of the recent topics but I guess there could be more scenarios to support this)

Tentative names:
1 : How to Use Bootstrap Studio
2 : Webdesign Help

If forum 2 does not get enough support from the community, no problem. It can be closed off afterwards, which is why splitting them first may be the better option.

As @jo-r, I, and many others can attest to, probably 80% of the people who post questions in the “Help and How To” forum category are brand new BSS owners who haven’t read any of the Tutorials, watched any of the videos, and have absolutely no coding skills.

Their questions are rarely asking for help with program features, but rather on how to build things that cannot be accomplished by simply dragging and dropping BSS components, or changing their appearance and function via the the program’s visual UI settings.

Some of the posts are so ridiculously outrageous, they are tantamount to, “I’m having trouble figuring out how to use Bootstrap Studio… can someone please show me how to use it to create a website just like YouTube?”

If you have ever visited or participated in the Q&A website Quora, it has a few categories devoted to website questions. Every day, it gets more and more jammed up with asinine questions like, “how can I use Windows notepad to build an e-commerce site like Amazon? PS - don’t know CSS, HTML or Javascript.”

90% of the questions originate (I suspect) from impoverished countries where it’s common for the schools to indoctrinated the youth into believing their path to wealth is to become website or app developers, and then sell their services to “wealthy western clients” who outsource their needs to cheap overseas developers.

About two years ago I was very, very busy building websites, so I tried “offloading” some of the labor by using an overseas website company to build a website for a new client. I figured, “even if they get me something halfway decent, I’ll be able to spend a few hours polishing it up, and save myself a bunch of time.” I believe they charged me $300.

What I got back was essentially a free Bootstrap template I had seen many times before on the web, with inline CSS added everywhere, tons of spelling and grammar errors, and stock photos that were very hi-res, (5-10 megabytes) shrunken down via CSS to fit in spaces 350px wide. On top of it all, it was done in Bootstrap 3, while Bootstrap 4 had already been out for over a year. Needless to say, I was furious with myself for being so dumb.

They kept asking me to “send them the next project” while I tried to explain to them that the first site they did for me was essentially useless. They kept offering fix it, but I just wanted to forget I had ever even made the mistake of hiring them to begin with. It was obvious they had no idea how to build websites correctly.

The… cluelessness… that goes on daily on the Quora website is growing exponentially. We are getting just a fraction of that here, but even that fraction is filling up the BSS Help and How To forum category with questions that are just inappropriate. They are the sorts of questions that should be asked on stackoverflow or searched for with Google. I don’t know anyone here who wants to teach people how to build websites for free, because most of us who frequent the BSS forum are building websites ourselves to make a living. It just adds insult to injury when people come here expecting us to give them coding lessons under the auspices of “help with BSS.”

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Well said @printninja, and as I mentioned, one of the biggest problems we’re having is that we’re creating the issue or at the least making it worse by:

Helping them anyways, feeling obligated … we are not, some of us help more than others and for me I’ve stopped bothering to answer those posts at all, not even to tell them to go learn or post elsewhere if needed. It’s too much hassle and doesn’t lead to anything other than at some point, …

Someone will come in and tell them exactly what they need to know which totally nullifies our requests to them to go learn/post elsewhere/not a BSS issue, etc.

THAT is our number one issue. If we stop answering the questions that don’t have to do with BSS in general, they will stop posting eventually.

If one of us says to them that they need to go get some skills built up, or that they are posting in the wrong forum, or whatever else we say that is explaining to them that this isn’t where to post … leave it be. Don’t come back in after that and then tell the people exactly what the want to know step by step etc. Maddening and that’s why am not answering those posts. Waste of my time in both respects.

Once again, if the forums were split up with specific place for help with website design, then I could just ignore that forum and help those that need help directly with the app and how the app works.
Just my 10 cent inflation post :stuck_out_tongue:

P.S. This post only pertains to those people asking for things outside of the scope of helping with BSS. Obviously if someone explains how to do something in BSS that is great!

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Going from all the suggestions in this thread, here is what we can do:

  1. Add one more rule to the Important Forum Rules which points users to the tutorials section and YouTube. This will guide new users to first try and solve problems on their own.
  2. Rename Help and How to to Bootstrap Studio Help.
  3. Create a new category Webdesign Help. We will also mention in the rules that this is the preferred place for questions not related to the program.

I am a bit skeptical that the new category will be very effective, because many people will be confused if their problem is with Bootstrap Studio or web development in general. It won’t hurt trying though.

Update: Done. I also moved some of the recent posts to give the new category a running start.

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Thanks much Martin, hopefully these changes will make things a little clearer for people that are looking for website help. Please also add that this is a user to user based forum (for the website help that is) and something to the effect that there may not always be an answer to the questions … reword it of course cause I can’t find the right words this morning. Just want people to be sure that help for their websites is not guaranteed, whereas help for the app will be much more prevalent.


I would call the categories:

Help Using The Bootstrap Studio Program

Help With Website Development, Coding Or Troubleshooting

After further thought, I would definitely rename the “Webdesign Help” category “Website Development, Coding & Troubleshooting Help.”

I think Webdesign is a little vague, and also a sort of an out-of-date term these days. I have a feeling people will presume that the category is for questions relating to layout, graphics, and the look/feel of the site. It needs to be clear that this new category is the place for posting technical questions, coding questions, and any other development questions that are not specifically related to the use of the Bootstrap Studio program.

I would also move this new category up in the list of categories to the #2 spot. Since the “Bootstrap Help and How To” category is #1, people are just going to see the words “help and how to” and continue dumping every single question there.

If this new category is prominent, and has words like “coding” and “troubleshooting” in it, then I think it will encourage people to stop posting every website problem they have in the “Help and How To” category, and then that will get more appropriate, program-usage-related questions.

Also maybe consider adding the bulleted points from the rules to the forum signup page to better ensure people actually read those points. Because if reading the instructions of this forum is anything like the human nature of reading the instructions for most things then I doubt many actually do once they get signed up (2600+ users, 319 views of rules).

Just make Jo and PrintNinja moderators as they seem to care the most about the forum and are the most involved. Why not let them help police and manage things and put an end to all these related discussions.

This is a good suggestion. We will add a link to the forum rules there to remind people to read them at the time they’re signing up.

As for forum moderators - this should be the team’s job. We just have to be better at it. Hopefully once Bootstrap 5 and the other high priority features are shipped, we will have more time for this.

@printninja The main problem with the names of the categories is that Discourse recommends these being 1-2 words max. If they are that long they will dwarf all other category names in the listings and may even be truncated.

Categories are sorted by Discourse. I am not sure what criteria is used and if everyone sees them in the exact same order.

Maybe as @bss_user suggested, the solution is more active moderation from our team. When we ship Bootstrap 5 we will look into making our moderation better.

Strange that they would limit the names of the categories, but if that is the case, then perhaps something like “Coding & Support” as opposed to Webdesign Help, and maybe “Using Bootstrap Studio” for the first category.

On my system, the current Webdesign Help category is 6th on the list. It seems bizarre they would not let you set the category order, but apparently it’s something others have struggled with. This thread may offer some insight…

Probably you are correct. Keeping the forums organized will ultimately boil down to moderation. Hopefully you guys will work it out.